Deadlifts

[Ben]

Hi,
Up until recently I have been training all my dead lifts stiff-legged, from reading articles by Dave Tate (Westside Barbell), and from seeing the WSM deadlift for reps in 2002. However, I was recently advised by a former powerlifter that you should use a lot of leg drive and just have your back at sort of 45 degrees, and just use your lower back at the second half of the lift. I am currently training comfortably at 180kg (I want to be sure of my form before I start moving higher), I feel more solid in the lift when I do use the leg drive in the first half of the lift, but will I reach a plateau sooner doing the deads in this style?
Cheers
Ben

[rickyhotrocks]

Hello Ben

Welcome to the wonderful world of BIG DEADS!! Leg drive will add many kilos to your lift, as well as reduce the chance of potential wear and tear on the lumbar discs/sacrum of the spine and hips. Doing the leg drive properly should actually reduce sticking points and plateaus. The best to think of it is to try and driove your feet thru the floor for the first half of the movement and then pull with the back. Most people simply straighten the legs, but should really drive HARD with them, as this will help move the bar faster off the floor and get you to lockout faster and with more weight!! When doing reps, you should never bounce the weight on the floor (as is very tempting, especially with this technique), simply replace the weight on the floor, reset your back/hips/shoulders and drive again!

Then train your weaknesses.......power rack work and lots of shrugs for lockouts, deadlift while standing on a 2 or 3 inch plate plate and heavy front squats to strengthen the start. No worries.

Hope this answers your question, incidentially how long have you been training? What is your best deadlift uo to now? What age/bodyweight are you?

[stonelifter]

ricky what are your best lifts and whats you`r age and weight!

[rickyhotrocks]

greetings stonelifter

I'm 28 (been training for about 9 years) and best lifts are: 325kg squat/200kg bench/325kg deadlift/100kg front clean & press for 8 reps (a big weakness!!). My current bodyweight is 118kg but i intend to trim down a bit for powerlifting competition. Whats yer stats

[stonelifter]

alright mate!

Im 21 next month been training seriously for 2 years, 5`10 tall current weight is 22 stone im dieting at the moment Im down from 24stone hopfully by allhallows I`l be down to 20stone! current lifts are deadlift 290kg/squat 280kg/bench 195kg. Im training for strongman not powerlifting where my weight would go against me(wilks formula)! and like u my clean is poor but my press isnt to bad, strict press 120kgx5! it a long road ahead and times on my side! I hope

[Ben]

Cheers, I will try that on Wednesday, I am 19 and just under 100kg I have been training 4 years, as I said I currently have not gone above 180kg on Deadlift, I can bench 130kg and squat 160kg; I am struggling to increase on the squat at the moment, so if you have any tips I would greatly appreciate them.
Cheers
Ben

[Si]

Ive being training 4months deadlifts i did 160kg pretty confidently yesterday.

Now im in alot of pain, but its all good fun.

Im 20, 13.5st

Si

[juliaREPOFIReland]

PLEEEZ! HELP ME QUICKLY! CHECK OUT THE OLD MESSAGE BOARD!

[rickyhotrocks]

Hi Ben

Squattin........no problem. The best way to get yer squattin up is to practice. Have 2 squattin sessions per week........one heavy were you train the lift and assisstance stuff, and one light were you really just to higher erp sets at the end of your deadlift or bench workout to practice form and aid in recovery. On the main squat day I like doing heavy sets with descending reps, eg

70 x 8
120 x 5
170 x 3
220 x 3
260 x 5
255 x 5

Cycle the top weights every 6-8 weeks, ie 240, 250, 255, 260, 265, 270, 272.5. Keep the reps at 5's in the early stages and then move to 3's at the end if necessary. Try to add 2.5 - 5 kg for reps by the end of the cycle. If you didn't get it, repeat with the same weights. If you did, then move all the working weights up the 2.5-5 kg you gained. Personally I dont get much out of 1 rep work, but I do test a new heavy single every 2-3 cycles to ensure I'm still going the right direction!!!

Then do 2-3 sets of an asisstance excerise, eg front squats, box squats, rock bottom pause squats or power rack work at various heights. Cycle these every 3-4 weeks.

Finish off with 2-3 heavy sets on the leg press (keep changin the reps - a few weeks at 5's, then do 8's then maybe 12's) and some hamstring (leg curls, romainian deadlifts or good mornings) and calf work.

You want to do a total of about 10-12 heavy sets after warmups - if youre able to do more youre not training hard enough. Use a belt on the heavy squats and assistance and maybe knee wraps put on at 50-75% tight.

Again, hope this helps........keep us posted on how you get on!!

[Ben]

Cheers Ricky,
I am training Deadlifts tonight, I will let you know how that goes. The squatting routine is pretty much what I am on at the moment, I just seem to be stuck on three reps at 160kg, I wondered if you had any technical points to focus on during the lift, I tend to fail right at the bottom of the lift-once it is moving I don't really have a sticking point. I can not get it up to five, I am at university at the moment so I am struggling a bit with food, sleep and concentration, but I finish in two weeks so I hoping to crank it up a bit.
Thanks for the advice.
Ben
P.S. are you the Ricky that won Allhallows Novice last year?

[rickyhotrocks]

Hi Ben ;D

I'm not the Allhallows winner.............yet, maybe!! Technical issues.........hard one without actually seeing what way you squat. Tell me,

Do you have long or short legs?
Do you have a long or short back?
Do you squat to below parallel (honestly!!)?
Do you keep the bar high on the traps or low on the rear delts (bodybuilding versus power technique)?
Where do you look when squatting up/in front/down?
What shoes/footwear do you squat in?
Do you do much upper back training.....rows/chins etc?
Do you use a suit/knee wraps in training
Have you ever box squatted?
Do you reguarly cycle the weight/reps you use?
Tell me exactly what your weekly training split and workouts consist of.

PHEW!!! Not tryin to be nosey (well maybe a little!!) but any info given to these will help.

[Ben]

Cheers Ricky I really appreciate this,

Do you have long or short legs?
Do you have a long or short back?
I am 6'2", with a fairly long back, but not too disproportionately.
Do you squat to below parallel (honestly!!)?
I squat to parallel, so that the top of the thigh at the hip joint is parallel to the top of my knee.
Do you keep the bar high on the traps or low on the rear delts (bodybuilding versus power technique)?
I have the bar fairly low, a bit higher if I am doing reps.
Where do you look when squatting up/in front/down?
directly in front
What shoes/footwear do you squat in?
sturdy boots
Do you do much upper back training.....rows/chins etc?
I normally warm up with prone hyperextensions, and I do bent over rows once a week and weighted chins once a week.
Do you use a suit/knee wraps in training
I don't use wraps, suits or belts
Have you ever box squatted?
Sort of, only with about 60kg though, I have just started, I always squat with a wide stance and move my hips back at the start of the lift, and then try to hold my body posture throughout the lift.
Do you reguarly cycle the weight/reps you use?
I normally cycle every 5 weeks, between more endurance program (Breathing Squats- I am up to 125kg), medium rep program concentrating on building strength in other core exercises (other than the big three), and then finally the 3-5 rep heavy powerlifting style one.
Tell me exactly what your weekly training split and workouts consist of.
Right at the moment I am attempting to do the heavy (by my standards) program,
Monday-
2x10 Prone hyperetensions 70kg
5x5 Squats 100/140/150/160/140
5x5 Military Shoulder Press 50/60/65/70/60
5x5 Chin-ups 0/10/20/10/0
5x5 Dips 0/20/40/50/30
5x20 Calf Raises
Wednesday
2x10 Prone Hyperextensions 70kg
5x3, 1x5 Deadlifts 120/150/160/170/180/150
5x5 Bench Press 60/100/110/120/100
5x5 Barbell Rows 60/80/100/100/80
5x5 Curls 40/50/55/60/50
5x20 Calf Raises
Saturday
Chins, Bench,Dips, Curls, Calves as before
3x 10 60kg Box squats

On the inbetween days I work on abs, grip and cardio.

Thanks I have never really known anyone who has been really strong so all I have is what I have tried to figure out for myself, so I am very grateful for your input.

Ben

[rickyhotrocks]

'Bout Ye Ben

No Problems big man. Don't know about the really strong bit though............good enough to to tip the balance in the old peoples home!!!!!

Anyway, Your squattin style sounds good, proper boots and all........just ensure they dont have a big heel, this tilts you forward and makes squattin more difficult. I use a good set of hiking boots for squattin and deadliftin, which have have an almost no heel and tons of foot/ankle support. Back training is good so your hopefully not rounding it. I would say the problem may lie in one of three things:
1. The way you cycle. you seem to do quite a lot of endurance/high rep stuff and only prioritize the power movements 5 weeks in 15. This may confuse the body/muscles so they dont know what you want from your training. I have found that concentrating on getting really strong for the majority of the time I train, and then maintaining that while I lighten up for a few weeks is better. Its harder to get strong than fit......well, fit enough to do strongman etc (not run a marathon). Plus when you go back to the lighter weights for endurance etc, because you are so much stronger you can do 20 reps with something you used to struggle to get 15. It just feels lighter!!

2. The way in which you organize your set/rep scheme each day. best way to describe this is to read an article I got years ago from a man called doug daniels at this link: www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ddani10.htm

3. Your current lifestyle/situation. I remember i used to make great gains at University during the semester, but training all went to hell during the 4 week exam period. Late nights, stress and not eating etc do not set the system up for a good peaking cycle. Its at times like this that you should really back off the heavy weight and intensity.........go for reps etc so that you don't burn out. Overtraining may be a big factor, and it can be caused by an increase in stress that stems from outside the gym. i remember trying to push it one year at this time (big comp just after the exams) and really hurt myself as the concentration and recovery were all used up studying. You must remember that you do not have an infinite resource, dude.

I did all the research for myself when I started too.......in fact I think its the best way. You keep trying to gain more knowledge and apply it to what you know about yourself, rather than listening to somebody who may have a different body/genetics/muscle/recovery structure tell you what to do. That doesn't you ignore that info.....you just realise that it applies to someone else and then adapt it to you. the most underrated things in the quest to get strong are: APPLIED KNOWLEDGE, GUTS, TENACITY, HARD WORK, REALISTIC GOALS and TIME. You sound like youre off to a great start.....just keep at it and adapt things as your strength/knowledge progresses.

God I can be long winded!!!!! Hope these senile ramblings are of some use........at worst they might just help you tick something else that wont work off the list!!

[Ben]

You have a bigger squat than the current world strongest man has listed on his site, so I would say you have a fair amount of strength.

Did my deadlifts were a bit sloppy to start with, but I can feel the difference with the leg drive, I did 70/120/160/180/190/160/120/70, reps on 180 felt solid, but second and third reps on 190 I lost my back posture quite a bit, I think I just need to get used to using the leg drive.

Cheers for the advice, what are you entering at the moment?

Ben

[rickyhotrocks]

Keep with the deadlifting.........maybe lighten the weights up a little till you groove into the new technique.

I qualified for the British Powerlifting Champs in 2 weeks time, but work commitments have got in the road. Next power thing is the FOUR NATIONS (N Ire/Scot/Wal/Eng) that is held in Wales in late Sept/early Oct. Current Irelands Strongest Man (Philip Porter) is running a wee novice strongman team show that I'm thinking of entering in August...........trying to see what training it will need without screwing with the prep for four nations. looks pretty good tho', events gonna be something like:

Car squat for reps (dont know weight probably between 220-250kg)
Log for weight
Loading 100-140 kg objects unto the altlas stone heights)
Celtic Cross carry for distance (140-160kg)
Tyre (about 380kg) flip for time: 40m
Farmers walk (115kg) for time: 60m

I think thats it!!